Beyond the Looking Glass of Hollywood: An Interview with Independent Filmmaker Phil Leirness

Last week we had the great opportunity to sit down with US independent filmmaker Phil Leirness and talk about his insights into writing and directing. Born in 1968, Leirness became interested in storytelling already early on and started acting in plays as well as writing short stories when he was just a kid. At the UCLA Film School he graduated with the award-winning thesis film Through Nights That Never End, which he co-produced, wrote, directed and starred in. The movie also stars Sideways and About Schmidt director Alexander Payne. After graduating Leirness wrote, produced and directed several independent films – among them The Party Crashers (1998), Spectres (2004) and Karl Rove, I Love You (2007). During the interview he not only told us about his latest project – the documentary The Truth Is Out There with The X-Files star Dean Haglund -, but he also offers astute observations about the filmmaking process in general as well as about the blurring lines between reality and fiction.

TheJunction: How did you find your way into filmmaking?

Phil Leirness: I’ve always been a storyteller. When I was a little boy, I wrote short stories in a spiral notebook. I fell in love with theatre at an early age. I was always writing and performing in some capacity, in some medium. It wasn’t until seeing Wim Wenders’ Wings of Desire just prior to film school, however, that I knew I had to be a director. Der Himmel über Berlin is a love story about the heartbreaking yearnings that bind us all together in the silences of our own individual personal despair and it’s an epic of the human heart full of the most nourishing truths about what it means to be human. To this day, I’m motivated to discover whether or not I am capable of such an achievement.

Phil Leirness and Dean Haglund

Source: Phil Leirness

Who are people that inspire you? Are there also any particular writers and directors?

I used to think that I traveled around showing, promoting and pitching my various projects so that I could keep making films. Now I understand that I actually make films so that I’ll be allowed to travel, meet people, share my stories, hear theirs and learn about different people, places and ideas. If you truly open yourself to people, you can find something inspiring in everyone, even if it’s inspiration of the “There but for the grace of God, go I” variety. The people closest to me are those who constantly inspire me to deepen my relationship to life and to my own nature. A few of these people are seen in my new film, The Truth Is Out There.

How can I possibly list all the writers that have inspired me? My appetite for poetry is deep and abiding. Some of the poets whose works are never more than arm’s length (and quite frequently on the tip of my tongue) include Hafiz, Rainer Maria Rilke, Mary Oliver, e.e. cummings and Paul Zweig. I love the novels of Ernest Hemingway and Raymond Chandler, and the plays of Tom Stoppard, Harold Pinter, Edward Albee and David Mamet. The two contemporary writers who most excite me at present are novelist Jonathan Franzen and playwright Annie Baker. Also, the quality of writing on the current television series Mad Men and Breaking Bad is astonishing. Overseen by their creators (Matthew Weiner and Vince Gilligan, respectively), the authenticity of those series is constantly inspiring.

If I were to list my “favorite” directors it would be those whose failures tend to excite me more than most directors’ successes, those whose approach to the craft inspire me as much as what that approach might have created in any particular film. Robert Altman made several true masterpieces. He also made some films that are hard work for me to get through. Still, the greater my familiarity with his entire body of work, the greater my appreciation for his master works, his life and his approach are informed. The same describes my feelings towards Federico Fellini, Orson Welles, Stanley Kubrick, John Cassavetes, Michael Powell (especially in collaboration with Emeric Pressburger), Werner Herzog and Akira Kurosawa. Many of my favorite films were made by directors other than these men, but the work of these directors never fails to leave me inspired.

What do you like most about being a filmmaker?

There are so many different professions that live within me … Lawyer, photographer, musician, teacher, psychotherapist, painter, dancer, detective, scientist, graphic designer, journalist … The limitations of time and in some cases, ability, encourage a specific choice. The thing about directing and, especially about being an independent filmmaker, is that I am called upon to be all of these things, and many more, at various times.

What do you think are main differences between movies and other forms of art?

No other art form combines so many different art forms within its process and even within its finished canvas.

No other art form allows us to explore and play with the concept of time, and how we perceive time, as freely as does the cinema.

No other art form affords us the opportunity of a stream-of-consciousness exploration of a character’s psyche combined with the visual poetry of how that character walks through the world, embodying the truths he or she believe in. This is important because the truths we can embody are the ones that end up changing the world.

I suppose television offers much of what I’ve described and with larger and larger screens in our homes, it is becoming a more immersive experience. However, the sacred aspect of the communal viewing experience offered by the theatre can be transformative, and the safety of watching something within the familiar, comforting confines of home creates a separation from the world you are being asked to enter.

How would you describe your filmmaking process?

I am someone who is constantly driven by the desire to find out of what I’m made. This desire has manifested itself in my being inexorably drawn to mixing genres and to never repeating myself. Early on, this was by design, so that I could never be pigeonholed. Now, though, I’m mostly compelled to find, explore and honor the authenticity of the characters through which the story is emerging and unfolding. When it comes to genre elements or even logistical approaches to filmmaking, I enjoy trying to breathe life back into what has become conventional. All these aspects must serve the story being told. All too often, we’re subjected to stories that were chosen for production because they served the established conventions of genre or logistics.

Whether the form is narrative or documentary film, the fundamental task remains the same: creating intimacy between the audience and that film’s subjects. I think one of the reasons documentaries have been so well-received of late is that increasingly their makers are finding new techniques for creating that intimacy while narrative films, certainly commercial narrative films, seem increasingly to be made in such a way as to actually prevent an audience from experiencing intimacy with the film’s characters (and even with each other!).

Intimacy is our birthright and to experience intimacy, we must be willing to open ourselves to the good, the bad and the so-called “ugly” that makes up a human being. A storyteller’s responsibility is to immerse the audience in the world experienced by a character. Whether that character is fictional or the subject of a documentary, if the story is artfully told, the audience will be inclined to move beyond their own personal judgments and find genuine compassion for the people that inhabit the world into which they’ve entered. And if the storytelling is particularly masterful, then the audience might just come away from the film, be it documentary or narrative, with a more compassionate, loving and accepting relationship with the full range of aspects that make up their own nature.

In this life, we don’t get what we want. We get what we are. So, I welcome those opportunities that can reveal myself to me and I refuse to worry about making a film because it will sell. Making a film is really hard work and what allows me to muster the energy and endurance required is the passion that comes from feeling it’s a film that needs to be made.

Please tell us about your latest project „The Truth Is Out There“. How did it come about? While making the film, did it develop into a direction you did not expect?

Neither Dean Haglund nor I can remember how we met, but we have worked together for quite a few years now. I directed him in Spectres, we co-wrote two screenplays together (both of which have come perilously close to getting financed on multiple occasions) and, of course, we have co-hosted Chillpak Hollywood Hour, a free weekly podcast for almost four years now. In having had the opportunity to get to know Dean over the course of these several years, it became quite intriguing to me that this improv comic from the frozen plains of Canada, who studied dance and art history in college, would become so closely identified with such an iconic role (“Langly”, one of the computer-hacking trio known as “The Lone Gunmen”) on the seminal television series The X-Files (and their own spin-off series), and would subsequently be so closely identified with the world of conspiracy. So, my interest in Dean as a person was part of the inspiration for The Truth Is Out There.

Another part of my inspiration was realizing that I enjoy making movies about things that make me angry. Twenty months ago, when we started principal photography, the public debate over health care was waging in the U.S. and it truly seemed like NO political debate could take place without what should have been a meaningful conversation devolving into conspiracy theories. The lack of conversation between people who disagreed, the dogmatic polarization that dominated seemingly every important discussion, and the non-stop litany of conspiracy theories surrounding EVERY topic were things that made me angry. And when I get angry, I stop myself because it’s very easy to find what’s wrong with something. What’s more interesting is to ask, “What’s right about this?  How does this serve?” And so, I thought following Dean Haglund, insider into the world of conspiracy theories and truth-seekers, into that world would make for an entertaining, illuminating and possibly inspiring journey.

We live in frightening, confusing times where you can find almost violent disagreement no matter the topic. I truly believe people who view The Truth Is Out There will be comforted and inspired by the film’s underlying message that our strength is in our diversity, that each of us was given a voice for a purpose, that each of us has something to contribute, and that if we stop fighting over who’s right and who’s wrong, we can draw from each individual’s uniqueness and build something truly glorious together. We wanted to make a film that shows how much fun it can be to search for the truth.

From a business standpoint, the genesis of the project came from producer Lyle Skosey and I wanting to make a film that could prove the distribution paradigm I had designed over the prior few years (starting when I was managing director of a consortium of Europe-based film distribution companies). What we have ended up with is a true epic of comedy, consciousness and conspiracy (the trailer can be viewed at http://truth-is-out-there.com) that we will be self-distributing through the Rational Exuberance banner (the company that Dean founded).

Two elements that set the completed film apart, that make it truly unique, are its rather effortlessly lighthearted tone and its spherical structure. The tone was by design, and though much of it flows from who Dean is naturally, it took a great deal of effort to create that “effortless” tone!

Where the film developed in a direction we could not anticipate was in its structure. At some point, during the editing, it became apparent that the film had to embody the concept of spherical consciousness being expressed within the film and to do so meant that structurally, this film could have no precedent. Indeed, I’ve never seen a movie like this. That’s both gratifying and terrifying for we ask a great deal of our audience. We also give them a great deal in return.

Knowing that we were going to self-distribute and that we would attempt to connect directly with our audience, we wanted to make sure that we gave the audience more than their money’s worth.

Do you have any favorite conspiracy theory?

At present, I’m fond of something Dean once suggested, that conspiracy theories themselves may be the true conspiracy. Just this week, our producer, Lyle, and I were discussing our feelings that  the cottage industry surrounding conspiracy theories is an effective tool at keeping people in conflict with each other and distracted from questions of personal responsibility. More and more of the world’s wealth, and therefore, more and more of the world’s power, continues to fall into fewer and fewer hands. Thoughtfully addressing questions of how best to serve the entire human race (and the planet) while respecting the rights of the individual, becomes impossible when the 98% of us that don’t own 90% of the world’s wealth continue to be at odds. To take a populace that fundamentally distrusts those in power and to separate that populace from each other through manipulation of that distrust seems a logical course of action if you’re in the position to profit from conflict and/or an impotent populace. A compelling conspiracy theory can certainly serve to manipulate that distrust.

Is there any advice you would give young people who strive to become writers and directors?

My first advice is for you to eliminate the adjective “young” from your question! I’ve lived long enough now and traveled around the world enough to know that dreams of creatively expressing oneself ought to have no expiration date.

My advice to all aspiring filmmakers, regardless of age, is to read. Not scripts. Books. Fiction and non-fiction. Study painting. You don’t have to paint, but study the way stories are told, emotions conveyed in still frames through color and light. Study architecture. Study dance and theatre. ESPECIALLY study dance and theatre. Study how stories are embodied by and expressed through the human body. Oh, yes, and love people. Unconditionally. I see so few films where the filmmakers seem to love their characters, to say nothing of people in general. The best storytellers are true witnesses, of themselves and of others.

Finally, the most important bit of advice I would have for filmmakers, aspiring or otherwise is this: Remember that the most significant story you ever tell will be the one you are telling with your LIFE. Make that story an interesting one. Tell a story with your life that inspires others, that raises the bar for others. Be someone with the courage to embrace what comes forward in life with gratitude for all of it. You do that, and your life will be an artfully told story and the filmmaking … Will take care of itself.

Do you as a filmmaker think there is a fixed line between fiction and reality?

As the renowned psychotherapist, Dr. Nicki Monti, says to Dean in The Truth Is Out There, “We live in pattern, Dean. So, everything we do, shows everything we are. At every given moment.”

No matter how much we wish to conceal, no matter how inauthentic the life we are leading, the lies we tell reveal a great deal about ourselves and the fictional stories we are drawn to hold a mirror up to different aspects of our patterning as individuals (and collectively as communities and societies).

Our dreams are not to be confused with reality and yet, they reveal far more about the inner workings of our psyche than the seemingly important waking reality all around us.

When we begin to truly witness that waking reality for the dream that it is, when we begin to interpret it by asking, “If this were a dream,” only then does the fiction that is our “reality” begin to disappear and the truly long, arduous, glorious journey of our own deeper humanity begin to emerge.

I was always drawn to film in the same way I was drawn to dreams for they speak the same language.

When I was a child, I loved going to the movies, though I was more fascinated by what was going on in the projection booth than I was by the specific images on screen. It amazed me to see the shutter gate in the film projector close and to realize that for much of the movie’s running time, the screen was actually blank! Our eyes and minds were filling in those blanks, creating the illusion of constant motion in the images projected.

I could go on and on about the narrow window we all look through that is called consciousness. However, there are people far more brilliant and eloquent than I in The Truth Is Out There that do so. Therefore, since you asked me “as a filmmaker”, I’ll close with one of the most important film-related insights I’ve ever heard …

If the audience sees it’s real, it’s real.

If the audience believes it’s real, it’s real.

If the audience wants to believe it’s real . . . It’s real!

Thank you, Phil, for the interview and for providing TheJunction with the chance to watch the film before its release! A review of the documentary will go online during next week.